This interview contains plot spoilers for episodes one and two of The Handmaid's Tale season 5. Watch the episodes before reading on...
Can you give us any insight into June's headspace as we head into Season Five? As we know, it's the morning after the night before...
Yeah… This is the first sort of like really official interview I'm doing, so I'm formulating my thoughts for the first time. Yeah, she's in a very interesting place at the top of episode one. She is in a state of almost euphoria, having done what she's done to Fred. And it's a scary place to be, but it's also almost that it is a euphoric place. But then, of course, immediately reality and life and consequences start to come into her world.
And she starts to have to deal with questions, and deal with what happens next, and what is she going to do next and what are the Handmaids going to do next, and what is Luke want her to do, and what does Moira want her to do? So she's trying to sort of push out the world and stay in this euphoric place. Um, but it's becoming quickly apparent that she's not going to be able to do that.
And how..
[Laughs]. Yeah! Right?
Handmaid's Tale 501: 'Morning' is now streaming at SBS On Demand
Clearly, I'm very much on board for this season’s promise to zero in on the central conflict with Serena. I understand that you and Yvonne refer to June and Serena as ‘Juliet & Juliet’. Is that that correct?
That’s right, we do.
Can you elaborate a little on that?
Yeah. It's hard for people to maybe understand, but we have such love for these characters and this inside knowledge of these women and who they are. And what we mean by that is that there is this bond between them. It is a bond of conflict and trauma and desires and love. But [they are] on two opposite sides of how to go about that. You know, they have the same needs. They have the same wants. They have the same goals, and that really bonds them.
So we think that they are the great love story of the show. They/we had this fantastic scene in season three, that was in front of the Lincoln Memorial, that we call their Break-Up scene. Like, that's the scene where they broke up. You know, that's where June believed that Serena would do the right thing. And June believed in Serena, and then Serena broke her heart, and they haven't really recovered from that.
Sure, and I mean, when Fred was 'indisposed', you know, they were very productive together! They have real potential to be formidable those two!
[Laughs] Great way of putting that! [Laughs] Yes, they tried, they came together. They tried to work to make Gilead a better place. Serena seemed to be coming to a place of wanting women to have more rights in Gilead. And then she ultimately failed June, and that broke June's heart, it Broke. June's. Heart. But regardless, I think that she—[pause] and this is not in the first two episodes [laughs], this is later!—I think she regardless, wants to believe that Serena will do the right thing, you know, she wants to believe that she will find her heart and find the good side of herself.
Okay. [Pause] Good luck... [Laughs]
Yeah, It’s gonna take a while! [Laughs]
Handmaid's Tale 502: 'Ballet' is now streaming at SBS On Demand
You direct these two debut episodes and let’s talk episode two specifically: Gilead loves a ceremony. What's it like to direct, you know, not just any ceremony, but the farewell of Founding Father Fred?
Oh yeah. They do. They love some pomp and circumstance, that Gilead. I mean, they're not very subtle. You know, it was such an extraordinary thing to be able to direct that, especially as a somewhat new director, it was obviously the biggest thing that I'd ever taken on at the time, [whispers] until the finale…
Oooh.
Yes, I also got to direct that. But at the time it was the biggest thing we'd ever done, the most extras we'd ever had in the history of the show. Just the most everything. Having so much cast. You know, we shot it over two days. It was a truly gigantic thing to, to take on. I loved it and I loved the challenge and I just wanted to do it justice.
Our art department and production designer did such an incredible job. Our costume designer Leslie Kavanagh, who's new to us this year, did an incredible job on the costumes. I mean, it was truly a group effort. Our locations department did an unbelievable job. Our background people, the people who run the background, our A.D.s. It was, across the boards, the biggest thing we've ever done as a crew. And we all really came together and worked really hard on it and I'm very, very proud of it.
It's amazing. And you know, in the story, it's all obviously stage managed for the world but really for a particular audience of one.
Yeah.
The way that that it culminates.... [Spoiler] I confess I gasped when Hannah showed up, it was great.
Ah, yeah.
So one of the strengths of the show is the way that you really do pick at the scab of trauma and depict the ways that individuals respond in various ways. Think: Rita and Moira trying to heal June; and Emily very much doing the opposite; and Serena doing whatever she's doing...
[Laughs].
Can you give me an insight into how you might go deeper into those themes across this season?
Yeah, I think June's story in the series, she's really trying to figure out who she is post-Gilead and she's not Offred anymore. She hasn't been Offred for a long time. She's not the June before Gilead. And who are you in this world post-Gilead? You know, she has the anger and the trauma of the time in Gilead but at the same time she has to find a way to harness that and to use that and to, not ‘move on from it’ because I don't know if that's possible, but to harness it in a way that is helpful.
This is very much what she's dealing with in episode one: How does the woman who tore apart Fred hold her baby at night? How can those two people exist in one woman? And she's frightened of her anger and she's frightened of the violence that she's capable of. At the same time, she loved it and she enjoyed it. And she took such pleasure in taking down this father of Gilead who really deserved it and who caused her and so many others so much pain. But that same person who tore somebody apart with their bare hands, what does that feel like when she touches her child's face with the same hand? And so episode one is really about her accepting that she can be both of those people in one woman, that she can be a loving, caring mother and be somebody who knows where to put her anger... [Laughs].
[Laughs] Where? Take your pick [Laughs]
Yeah. [Laughs]
So, back to Hannah for a moment, with respect to episode two. How do you reconcile what June is feeling, with the belated realisation of the lengths to which Gilead will go? You know, that way that Gilead can and so often does use little Hannah as leverage?
Mm-hmm. Even though June knows Gilead so well, I think it's very easy to underestimate what they're capable of, and what Serena is capable of. And there are new depths of evil that they will go to. And I think it's hard to anticipate those things. It's hard to think that someone would use your daughter, that they've kidnapped and are holding hostage, as a symbol and as a weapon against you. You know, and I think that it's a horror beyond June's imagination. It's nothing that she could have guessed would happen, because you just don't think people are capable of that kind of evil, even if you've seen it in front of your very eyes, you know? It's really hard to confront. So Gilead will, as Lawrence says, I think at one point, 'Gilead will Gilead'. And they will just find new ways to hurt her.
Will we see any of The Testaments woven in across this season at all?
That's a very good question. No, I think we're still very much in the world of Handmaid's Tale, but you know, Bruce and I talk about it a lot, and, um, there is an awareness of where that world is... And there's awareness of the future. But I would say we're very I think we're very much concentrating on our tale and our story right now and making sure that we give that everything that it needs in order to fully mine this tale that we we've got. But it's always in the back of our minds, even as actors. It's in the back of our minds, you know, it's always present. But we’re concentrating on this one right now.
New episodes of The Handmaid's Tale premiere weekly and exclusive to SBS and SBS On Demand. Listen to SBS Australia's companion for episode recaps and exclusive interviews with the cast and creators of The Handmaid's Tale.
