Pope Tawadros II is a pragmatic man - soft spoken, conservative, as per his religious beliefs - but also, seemingly, a man who wants to move with the times.
"This world is hungry for love," he declared at an airport press conference, on his arrival in Australia, bemoaning the advent of smartphones and technology that keeps people from talking face to face. He constantly reminds congregations of the importance of human interaction.
We talk in a cavernous meeting room at Sydney's International Convention Centre, with an entourage of bishops, priests and bodyguards. He has come from lunch with NSW Premier Gladys Berejiklian, after leading a five-hour Divine Liturgy, and will host a youth event for more than 2,000 after our chat. It is a gruelling schedule for the 64-year-old former pharmacist. The only concession to comfort: a customised, carved papal chair that has been brought in, for his bad back.
Many people in the crowd gathering outside to see their spiritual leader keep expressing their deep gratitude that their patriarch has come to Australia to see them, despite such turbulent times in Egypt.
Pope Tawadros is viewed by many Australian Copts not only as a religious leader, but also as a cultural figure who can help them maintain their links to their homeland.
The largest remaining Christian community in the Middle East and North Africa, and one of the world's oldest churches, Coptic Christians have faced persecution time and again under various regimes. In recent months, IS attacks on the community have left dozens dead.
"We are now in war against this terrorism and this violence," Pope Tawadros II tells me.
I ask how it's possible to reconcile a religion that professes love at its core with a declaration of war.
"We get it from our history," he says. "Before these attacks, we prayed for those who make these attacks against our people, against Egyptians, against churches. And also, we love them. And we forgive for them. And we are waiting to change their hearts, to be good. This is considered as evil."
A church of martyrs
"We are a church of martyrs," the pope explains, "In our churches, we read a story everyday about the martyrs from our history. This strengthens our way, and our vision, and our aim for Heaven."
In December, an IS suicide bombing at a church in the capital killed 29.
On Palm Sunday, two other explosions at church services in Alexandria and Tanta left 46 people dead.
In May, 29 were killed, dozens of others wounded, when gunmen opened fire on a bus on its way to a monastery. The dead included women and children.
After these attacks, Pope Tawadros II says: "Our churches were full of believers. If you visit our churches during the last holy week, they are very crowded."
"All these [attacks] strengthen our way and our faith."
Still, the pontiff is realistic.
"Fear is considered as a human feeling, of course. But at the same time, we have the power of faith in our hearts."
IS have declared Coptic Christians to be their "favourite target", but the pope is careful to note attacks on military installations in Egypt, and on groups in other countries.
I ask him what his message to the extremist group is, and he considers it for a moment.
"Please stop that bad behaviour and that violence," he says at last. "Please start a new beginning to react with the societies and make together a good future for all people."
A new Egypt?
Pope Tawadros II often speaks about the future; and his dreams for what the world could be. But a recurring theme in his rhetoric is that of a "new Egypt".
He speaks of the 2011 revolution that "changed everything, but was stolen after three days only". He sighs.
"Some groups tried to change the regime in Egypt. Egyptians generally - Muslims or Christians - love religion, but they don't accept at all to be regimed by religion," he says, a reference to the Muslim Brotherhood, and its brief stint in government under Mohamed Morsi.
"Then there was another big revolution. To correct everything."
The Coptic Christian leader stood by the military in 2013, during that revolution; even giving a speech in support of Morsi's ouster. It is a moment that many point to as a potential catalyst for anti-Christian sentiment amongst more conservative Muslim groups.
I ask the pope if he regrets his decision.
"I would like to explain that the removing of Dr Morsi was not from the Christians, [it] was from all the Egyptians. All Egyptians, Muslims and Christians, sharing together for this removing. Therefore we consider this revolution is a popular revolution in Egypt. It was very fantastic," he says. "And after that removing, there is big happiness in every house in Egypt. Therefore starting the new beginning in Egypt is our hope; our hope for all Egyptians."
It is a response that belies his belief in the role of the Coptic Church in Egyptian life. In the weeks after he became pope, he was outspoken about his desire for the church to remove itself from politics. Nearly five years on, Pope Tawadros' rhetoric has shifted.
"I think that the main role of the church is a spiritual role and the Coptic Orthodox Church is considered as a church, separate completely from the politics. But our participation in that revolution was through citizenship. Because in addition to the spiritual role, we have a social role to serve our society."
How do you draw that line, I ask, between staying out of politics while being involved in social affairs?
"This is a very thin line," he grins.
"All Egyptians have many dreams to build the new Egypt. The new Egypt with good economy, with good education, with good law, and also with good media. This is the new Egypt which we hope to be," he explains.
When he sits down with Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull next week that will be top of the agenda.
"I think the friendship between Australia and Egypt can help Egypt to be more and more in good condition," he says.
I ask how far we are from his "new Egypt" dream. He laughs.
"Many years, many years," he says, shaking his head.
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