Amina El-Shafei is a self-confessed Ramadan sweet tooth.
Her two favourite Iftar foods? Atayef, a deep fried yeast pancake stuffed with clotted cream and Qamar-al-din, a sweet apricot drink garnished with fruit and nuts.
The drink is something her Egyptian grandmother used to make for her at Iftar and it’s a tradition the television personality continues with her own family.
It was just the most loveliest thing to break your fast on. That sweet hit you get from it. The textures of the nuts and the dried fruit. It sets the appetite for eating the mains.Amina El-Shafei
The former Masterchef contestant says breaking her fast as a nurse on the hospital ward was challenging, but also an opportunity to share food and open a conversation with other nurses.
Food is such a wonderful element of conversation, of gathering people. It doesn’t matter what walk of life you are from, put food on the table, get a bunch of people around it, and so much can happen.Amina El-Shafei
Inter-faith dialogue is a big part of Tasneem Chopra's work as a cross cultural consultant. There was a time when she could clock up to fifteen Iftar events on her Ramadan calendar.
Ramadan in lockdown held a special appeal is helping her slow down and connect. It was the only time in memory where for all thirty days she got to sit down with her three adult kids every single night and Iftar together.
We would take our time to eat the food, and enjoy the meal much more mindfully and meaningfully.Tasneem Chopra
Borrowing from other cultures has also been a part of Tasneem's Iftar experimentation. One year, she was delighted to be introduced to spicy fruit chaat by her Pakistani neighbour. This combined with samosas and sweet bread forms her favourite Ramadan Iftar trifecta.
The refreshing zest of fruit coupled with the friedness of the samosa and then the sweetness of the bread. That's all the food groups, or they’re my groups!Tasneem Chopra
LISTEN TO
Fasting and feasting: Iftar, food and family
SBS Audio
05/04/202328:18
My Ramadan is a five-part podcast about how we experience Ramadan and Eid in modern multicultural Australia.
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CREDITS
Host: Sarah Malik
Executive producers: Sarah Malik and Caroline Gates
Audio Engineer: Jeremy Wilmot
TRANSCRIPT
Sarah Malik: I would like to acknowledge the traditional owners of the land on which I'm recording from. I pay my respects to the Cammeraygal people and their elders past and present. I'd also like to acknowledge the traditional owners of all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander lands you are listening from and extend this respect to any First Nations listeners.
Amina El-Shafei (promo): I think food is such a food is such a wonderful element of conversation, of gathering people and it doesn’t matter what walk of life you are from, or part of, put food on the table, get a bunch of people around it, and so much can happen.
Sarah: Hi, I'm Sarah Malik, your host for ‘My Ramadan’. A podcast about how we experience Ramadan and Eid in modern multicultural Australia. Today, we celebrate all things food and Iftar. I talk to Masterchef contestant Amina El-Shafei and cross-cultural consultant Tasneem Chopra on what iftar looks like for them. Welcome to the show Tasneem and Amina.
Tasneem Chopra: Thank you Sarah.
Amina: Thank you too.
Sarah: Thank you for being here, really excited to talk to you both. We'll start with you Tasneem, you grew up in country Victoria in Bendigo. Tell me about the Iftars that you grew up with?
Tasneem: For the most part, Iftars back in the country town in Bendigo, I'll be honest, it was in the late 70s and early 80's and late 80s, it was a good 12 years that we were there, and there were very much, a very family affair, for the most part. So for my parents every Ramadan, it would be a thing. There would be decorations. We knew that this month was the lunar calendar for the Muslim calendar, so we learned what the Islamic months of the year were in that process. We’d do a little exercise, like have to write the names down to make a little calendar so that we'd learn the process. Then, when Ramadan came there’d be decorations up on the wall, there’d be traditional foods that my mother would make only in the month of Ramadan. The classic was this little sort of French toast thing. It was sweet bread. It was a ritual to break the fast with. It was punctuated with these little traditions that would only happen at that time of the year. Then of course, we'd fast and break the fast together as well. Going to school, while I was fasting in a country town was another experience altogether, explaining to all the Aussie kids. They all thought I was a bit strange and a bit odd for it. Didn't really ask me for much more than that, beyond, ‘Not even water?!’. That sort of was definitely an early highlight.
Sarah: Amina, your dad is Egyptian and your mum is a Korean convert to Islam. So tell me a bit about what your Iftars were like growing up?
Amina: I think in retrospect, it was fairly quiet. Both my parents were first-generation immigrants to the country and we didn't have extended family. So we were quite nuclear in terms of celebrating and observing Ramadan. Both my parents were employed as well during Ramadan. My mum was a registered nurse and so you know we didn't always have Iftar together as a family. Quite often, she was a shift worker. There were some afternoons or some evenings where she wasn't home to break fast, so it was quite an interesting, sometimes, lonely experience during Ramadan. But progressively during the years, and as we got older, my mum did shift her working hours and she tried to negotiate hours with work so that she could be home for most of the Iftars or she'd take annual leave during Ramadan. Then that way, we had that family experience, which I thought was really nice. But like what Tasneem was saying, you know, like there were only certain foods that came out in Ramadan. I don't know why we do that to ourselves, because they're sometimes the best foods! And it's torture. Like you got to wait another 12 months for it, especially the sweets!
Sarah: Yeah, I think for me, a Pakistani Ramadan always involves this red rose sherbet syrup, called Rooh Hafza, and you drink it with milk and you know, basil seeds and jelly and noodles. And it's just this very syrupy, sweet kind of milkshake.
Tasneem: It's a party in a glass!
Sarah: It is a party in a glass. And it's one of those things which you do not have outside of Ramadan, but you definitely have to have in Ramadan and I'm wondering if there's any particular foods for you both that are very iconically Ramadan. Amina?
Amina: Yeah, so we have in Arab cooking this really lovely sweet called Atayef which are these yeast pancakes either served fresh as they are, or then they get stuffed with clotted cream or nuts, and then deep fried and then thrown into syrup. They're so delicious! Similar to what you're saying, a drink that we sometimes break fast on (is) Qamar-al-din, which is like an apricot puree with dried fruits and nuts through it. They're definitely my top listed sweets or Ramadan foods.
Sarah: That apricot drink that you mentioned, that has quite a special meaning for you, doesn't it Amina?
Amina: The Qamar-e-din or Amar-e-din is quite nostalgic to me because from my memories going back to Egypt and being around my grandmother when she was alive, she would make that during Ramadan served in these little glasses and it was just the most loveliest thing to break your fast on. You know that sweet hit you get from it. The textures of the nuts and the dried fruit, and it just sets the appetite for eating the mains.
Sarah: I love it. Is that something that you make for your family as a way to kind of connect with that heritage?
Amina: Yeah, absolutely I definitely make it for my family now. It’s something I’ve taken on. My husband is Lebanese so it’s not a big thing for him but he's also adopted it now. So sorry, they haven't got a choice but they're going to enjoy it every Ramadan now!
Sarah: You better drink this apricot drink! (laughs) I love it.
Tasneem: When you're cooking, it's your rules, right?
Amina: Oh, that's right. Whatever is on the table goes.
Sarah: Tas, I was watching you kind of nod yearningly to some of those descriptions of food. Is there something that really hits the spot for you during Ramadan that you really love to eat?
Tasneem: I've picked up on the real desi tradition of samosas in Ramadan which I don't actually even make. I don't make them any time of the year and to be honest, let's be honest. I don't make them Ramadan. I order them, okay? Me and thousands like me, so I'm going to own it! Okay? Busy person and I'm happy to support an entrepreneur who is doing it. So that's my reasoning. So yeah, fried samosas to break the fast with, along with the meethi dhabal, which is the sweet bread that I learned from my mother, which I only make in Ramadan because it's fastidious and tedious and once a year is enough, okay? That's why we also make these things in Ramadan and no other time. The last thing that I've also cottoned on to thanks to a really lovely Pakistani neighbour that I had for a few years, was fruit chaat. It's basically, it's a fruit salad with this can I say, devilishly lovely, spicy mix that you mix into the fruit salad. I mean, Sarah, you know what that is. I mean, it's a typically Pakistani thing which I discovered and I've taken that on board because then I feel like I have the refreshing zest of fruit coupled with the friedness of the samosa and then the sweetness of the bread. That's all the food groups, or they’re my groups!
Amina: Oh wow that sounds so good.
Tasneem: And I’m happy. .
Sarah: I love her description as well. I'm like I want to eat that right now. But yes, Pakistanis, anything sweet we'll just throw spice at it and then just make it some kind of fusion food. Like fruit - we’ll throw some spice at it, juice- we’ll throw some spice at it.
Tasneem: Then it becomes a dish.
Amina: yep!
Tasneem: You put spice on a fruit and it's like that's an actual dish now.
Sarah: It's not just fruit salad, it's fruit chaat, okay? So, enjoy it guys. And you know, you're both busy women and I think about the craziness, my mum would get up to like making bread in the morning for all of us and, you know, it was just hectic. I think of myself and my lifestyle and for me it would be, be more sustainable with Iftars and doing something that fits my schedule. So what does iftar look like for you both today ?
Tasneem: For me, it's manically rushed because the days are short, you are cramming in work with a mealtime that is considerably earlier than any other time of the year as well. It means the need to be prepared and ahead of schedule is paramount. So whereas I might have started cooking at 6:00 in the past or anyone started cooking it in my household, because I live with grown adult children, meal prep might have started later. Now, everything needs to be in train before 5:00 p.m. in order to not miss the deadline. So you know what it resembles? Iftar time at my place resembles the last two minutes of a MasterChef episode, which Amina could relate to, where everyone is flying around getting plates and glasses and there's a countdown at the last minute and then no matter what you're doing, if your food's ready or not when the time has come everyone grabs a date. That's like plates down, right? Grab the date and then you break it. Have your date, have your water, break your fast and hopefully food's ready. If it's not, you know, you are just going to eat whatever you can muster. But ideally it's like a manic rush to beat the clock. That's what it is.
Sarah: Amina, so what does your kitchen look like? Is it plates down and manic rush. Like when you were on the show?
Amina: No, half the time, it's like break your fast and just wait. I'm not done, gone over time! But yeah, I don't do shift work anymore as a nurse, so that's an advantage. I do work during the week though so, on the days that I'm working, I try meal prep ahead of time and that's something that I've had to really pick on the last couple of years with little ones now, and I find it's just easier to try and beat the rush time hours as well, you know, coming from work to home. And at least my husband kind of can help out by starting to heat the food on the cooktop or in the oven. So that makes a big help, but on the days off, yeah, I will make the effort because I'm only part-time which is great. So I will make the effort to try and make something really nice and decent, but with two kids under the age of four, it can get a bit mental trying to prepare a nice meal.
Sarah: I'm wondering for you both, has Ramadan and Iftar kind of changed your relationship to food and family at all, Tasneem?
Tasneem: I think it's particularly the aftermath of Ramadan you become much more mindful of quantities, of what you're preparing and wastage. Particularly in Ramadan that ethic of understanding the imperative of respecting the food. And I think that's important in informing healthy eating habits and healthy behaviour. So only eating as much as you need, only preparing and buying as much as you need and having a renewed appreciation for what the value of that brings to you and to community as well. I think as your children get older as well and participate more in the preparation and of course, in the fasting, but in the preparation and in the broader scope of what Ramadan means beyond just not eating, but what it actually means, then I think the benefit of that month is something that lingers long after the thirty days.
Sarah: This whole podcast is about how we do Ramadan today, and keeping traditions, but also letting go of certain traditions or ways of doing things that don't work, which for me was you know, women doing all the work which is not something that I want to continue. Amina, it's so lovely to hear you talk honestly about your schedule and your lifestyle because I think a lot of people would be thinking MasterChef Amina - she must have it all together and you know if you're also trying to make things work and you know juggling a bunch of things that's so such a relief to hear. So I'm wondering for you how has Ramadan and Iftar changed your relationship with food and family?
Amina: My relationship with food has also been about what works best as well after a full day of fasting, what sits in the stomach a lot more comfortably and understanding what works for your body and your family and their health. So you know quite often for me during Ramadan, it's about the choices of food. We like to have soup to start off because it's just nice and easy on the stomach, something fresh and I try to avoid really heavy meals because I just find that you feel quite uncomfortable. After a full day of fasting, your stomach is already quite small, in the sense of accepting food. So it's understanding what foods work best after fasting. The other thing is for me, the children as they're growing up having that relationship with family around to break fast. I think there's such a nice element of having the family together to break fast after, you know, after a long day. And I think that's a stark difference to I guess for me the last maybe probably the last ten ish years, where I've been doing shift work and since finishing shift work and having kids. Shift work can be really detrimental as well in terms of how we experience Ramadan. Because if you're not home with the family, you're breaking fast on the ward or in the hospital, wherever you work as a shift worker. It can be quite lonesome and quite rushed too so there's no enjoyment. So it just depends on your workplace too and you just miss out on that experience of breaking fast with the family or friends. I'm glad that part of my life is over. But you know what they used to pay me out big time on the ward, oh yeah, especially on night shifts, “She's working during the night. She's eating. She's feasting at night and then she just sleeps through the day. What a treat!” But not anymore!
Sarah. This night shift business works perfectly for you, you can just do Ramadan at hospital!
Amina: Don’t feel a thing!
Sarah: Just eating that date by yourself how wonderful! Gosh, that's definitely relates to me, as a journalist. I remember, being a young journalist and, you know, working shift work and just eating a date at a press conference. It's not easy because you really feel like you're doing it on your own when Ramadan is supposed to be a collective experience and a community one. So you do feel like you're missing out a bit.
Iftars are huge social events, there's lots of cooking and there's lots of community, and there's lots of events and corporate Iftars and community Iftars and Tasneem you've been to a lot of these. Tell me about what your Ramadan schedule can look like?
Tasneem: In the past it was probably a lot more, I wouldn't say chaotic, but very, very busy. When the corporate Iftar or community Iftar culture was taking off, it was a novelty, so I was saying yes to all the invitations. I might have been having like 15 events, which is a lot right. As the years have gone on, I've cut down the events. To now, I'm doing maybe three or four because it's not sustainable simply in terms of what the month is meant to do. You’re meant to wind down, you're supposed to be engaged. I feel much more in a sort of spiritual esoteric stillness rather than this constant negotiating travel and then parking and getting to the venue, then scoffing down your food. Then rushing off to taraweeh, it kind of loses its zing. That said, the events are a beautiful networking opportunity and you do see people at Ramadan iftars in the community and corporate sector that you only see at that time of the year. So there is that and Sarah you and I met at an Iftar, let's not forget?
Sarah: We did, we did! We met at the US Embassy Iftar in Melbourne.
Tasneem: You just never know what it's going to yield and so I do enjoy the spontaneity of these catch ups and meet ups with people in an environment that is very blessed and very joyous. And the food is always amazing. Let's not pretend, I didn't have to cook it. I love any meal I didn't have to cook, but I think in terms of managing my spiritual practice, I've had to pull it back a bit because it gets crazy.
Sarah: Yes and I’m wondering though how did covid change your relationship with those iftars? There was a bit of a shift for you after that.
Tasneem: What Ramadan taught me during lockdown, what Iftar taught me, was a renewed sense of connection and I did have the whole day to prepare for food as opposed to a rushed manic MasterChef hour because I was working from home, if I was working at all, because again Covid through a spanner in the works on many different fronts. So the dinner would be ready, the kids would turn up, come out of their little rooms at the set time, we’d break our fast, we take our time to eat the food, and enjoy the meal, much more mindfully and meaningfully. And you know what, I miss it. I don't miss lockdown, but I do miss Iftar and Ramadan in lockdown because I think it was the only Iftar in memory where for all 30 days I would see my kids every single night and we would eat together every single night. I'm so grateful to have that as a memory. It's an endearing memory and an enduring memory as well so silver lining to lockdown.
Sarah: Amina for you the idea of like food and connectedness and people, you're probably always making those links. Ramadan, kind of takes that to another level as well, in terms of coming together with people over food.
Amina: I think also being, you know, now, quite active on social media. It's also an opportunity to share recipes and to share food ideas and to share what people are experiencing in terms of the food context of Ramadan. I think that's really lovely too, because you get so many wonderful ideas and you see so many people on Instagram, for example, sharing what they've cooked, the feast that they’ve had, the family interactions. There's all these wonderful memories being made on social media between families and individuals. So you know, from that food front, it's quite engaging on my end.
Sarah: Yeah, I love that. And, you know, you talked about growing up, it was a bit lonely for you and now kind of we have the opportunity to make our own traditions, traditions that work for us and that sometimes comes with borrowing from other cultures too. I love that I don't have a Pakistani Iftar anymore, I make fatteh, or I make hummus or I have kebabs. I like to mix it up because I think I live in this diverse country and I'm always borrowing from my friends and having friends over.
Amina: It’s so nice!
Sarah: And it's something that's so lovely. And I'm wondering how you both kind of adapt and evolve your iftars for modern Australia, if there's been any interesting experiences?
Tasneem: Yeah, I've had occasions where I have in the past, invited some non-Muslim friends who were very curious about the Iftar process and so literally invited themselves, saying ‘When can we come over in Ramadan?’ And I'm like, ‘Oh okay, we're doing that now!’. So we did and they enjoyed the novelty of it all. Of course they appreciated the food and they were very obviously generous with their understanding and learning of all the different processes - that we broke the fast, how we had the date, had the meal, we’d go to pray and come back, shortly after the meal Some of the kids or all of the kids might, including myself, might even leave for taraweeh prayer. So they were okay with that. They were there to really quietly and respectfully observe and learn. So I did appreciate that opportunity. I've also taken the opportunity where I can to, call over, I shouldn't call them the misfits and wayfarers, but basically, it's those people who are on the fringes who don't have family here, could be students, they could be just single mums or friends. People who you would think to invite because you wanted them to have a sense of something bigger than just one or two people at the breaking of the fast time. So I don't do it as much as I would like to but I certainly will endeavour to, you know, every Ramadan have at least one or two iftars with that group.
Sarah: I love that. It's so true because you know, not everyone has big communities. Sometimes people are on the peripheries of Muslim communities, or they’re converts or they don't feel at ease in big gatherings, or feel welcome. So that's actually quite beautiful, I love that idea. Amina, I wonder if that resonates with you at all?
Amina: Yeah, absolutely. So I think, back in the shift days of nursing, quite often, I’d bring extra food. For example, if I'm breaking fast, often it's sweets, so people can share and whatever between the nurses. And that was a really nice way of educating, you know what Ramadan is about, because they’d be like, ‘Oh, what's all this for?’ and then that's how the conversation starts. But I think admittedly, I haven't had a lot of opportunity to do invitations as such for a lot of people outside of the Muslim faith. But, you know, for us, it's about the sweets during Eid and that's the opportunity to then, you know, for the neighbours, for example, to share sweets, and to say, okay, well this is our celebration, we're celebrating and we want you to share or be part of it and sharing sweets, for example. But, you know, going back to the social media front, that sharing of ideas, of Ramadan, I think, is really important because I would say, 70% of my audience on social media are non-Muslims. And I find that it's such a really good opportunity to say, well, it's now Ramadan, this is what I'm making for the family and this is part of what we're feasting on, you know, and I think that starts again a conversation but also maybe just that education for non-Muslims to understand the significance of the month. But you know that also comes at the patience of my husband because half the time when I put the food on the table to have iftar and I’m there taking my photos, he’s like, ‘for God’s sake. Just hurry up, man, we want to eat, like just hurry up!’ No! Social media is very important!
Sarah: Behind every glamorous food picture there's a hangry husband, right Amina?
Amina: Yeah (laughs)
Tasneem: I love that (laughs)
Sarah: And you know, like it's so true because you share so much of yourself through food and we saw that on MasterChef, like you share who you are, you share your culture, you share your identity, you share your family, you share so much of yourself, and it's such a wonderful kind of easy, soft and innocuous way for us to share ourselves, you know, through the food that we're making. And so iftar is something that it seems really simple, but it is very powerful, isn't it? Just the act of eating it and sharing it with other people?
Amina: Yep, yep, I think food is just such a wonderful element of conversation, of gathering people, and it doesn't matter what walk of life you're from, or part of, put food on the table, get you know, a bunch of people around it and so much can happen.
Sarah: I might actually do some rapid fire questions actually, before we end the podcast all related to iftar. So the oddest place that you've broken your fast? Tasneem?
Tasneem: The strangest place was actually during a live recording of The Drum. I remember being on the panel during Ramadan and I was not going to take the opportunity, but I thought I'm sure I'll manage it somehow. I was sitting there on a panel obviously with guests either side including the host mindful of the clock while I was answering questions. I was multitasking, answering complicated questions, looking at the clock, looking at my water and waiting for the time to tick over and when it did tick over and I knew it was time to break the fast, I just casually leaned over and took my glass of water, which they had very nicely kept on The Drum table and took a sip of water, went down and just broke my fast like a boss; and I did it. So I'll never forget that. Nobody knew and it's just, it's not about a big deal out of it: ‘Everybody, I'm breaking the fast now’. I didn't. I just went with the moment and I did it. But yeah, I remember feeling very self-conscious that I was fasting. If I break my fast, will anyone notice? I thought, no, it's just a sip of water, but yeah, stealthily, done talking about Bob Hawke at the time too. I remember it very, very clearly.
Sarah: I love that. It's such a celebrity Tasneem Chopra mic drop moment. Like, look, ‘I was just casually on live TV and I had to break my fast and I was talking about Bob Hawke and I just did it.’
Tasneem: The point is that we can fast and panel at the same time, Sarah! That's what I'm trying to say, it doesn't stop you from doing what you do.
Sarah: I love it. That is the most iconic fast-break I've heard of and Amina for you, the oddest place. you've broken your fast?
Amina: Probably the ward? Yeah. One of the ones that I used to work on; in the tea room, all by myself.
Sarah: I relate to that so deeply. It's like, ughh! And what's the food that you miss the most during fasting? Amina?
Amina: I don't know what it is but I crave watermelon. And the other thing is just don't put me in a grocery shop of any sort while I'm fasting because I end up trying to over buy because you just think I'm going to eat this, or eat that. So yeah watermelon and don’t put me in the grocery store!
Sarah: Who bought this 20 kg bag of basmati rice?
Sarah: Tasneem for you, what is the food that you miss the most?
Tasneem: You know, it's just the coffee. It's the morning coffee.
Sarah: You Melbourne Muslims, you need to do a whole coffee and Ramadan special because you have a special relationship with coffee.
Tasneem: The tragedy is I can't have coffee after 4:00 because then I won't sleep.
Amina: Decaf?
Tasneem: Yeah, I know, but I always forget to buy it and then the whole month just disappears. So, yeah, I go almost without coffee for 30 days, which is quite amazing, but then, like, on Eid I’ll have like four coffees.
Sarah: IV drip of coffee needed right here. I'm wondering if you guys can remember your most beautiful iftar experience?
Amina: Whoa most beautiful? Experiencing a couple of days of Ramadan in Egypt was phenomenal. And I think the thing that we don't have here as much is the nightlife post the fasting, you know. I think in the Muslim countries during Ramadan after we finish fasting, the nightlife is just wonderful, you know? It just goes on till 3:00 or 4:00 in the morning so I think it's those experiences.
Sarah: Yeah, that sounds beautiful and Tasneem your most memorable Iftar experience?
Tasneem: I think you can't get past the excitement of the Haldon Street Ramadan night things, which I went to for the first time last year.
Amina: Now it’s like, you're an addict!
Tasneem: Can I say it lived up to the hype, because I was a bit worried about, what are these camel burgers and these long queues for these bizarre things. But I did, I enjoyed the Bengali food, the Pakistani food, the Arabic food, the kunefe. My most watched ever Tik-Tok reel is from the kunefe guy in Haldon Street Lakemba markets so that’s proof for you right there, that it’s popular. But in terms of the most impactful Iftar experience, I had was again last year when I attended an Iftar run by a refugee collective who made the best food I've ever had. I think I believe it was Iraqi food, and the speakers were a series of women who had just arrived from Afghanistan, who had fled and came here and spoke of their journey and experiences. I think the whole event was orchestrated so mindfully, the food was beautiful. The company was all very supportive and understanding and the presenters were just heartwarming. So, yeah, I think the simplicity and the humility of that event coupled with fabulous food and a great cause was hard to beat.
Amina: Nice!
Sarah: Beautiful. That sounds perfect. Sounds like a real Iftar of meaning and connection and kind of welcoming The Stranger. Thank you both for being on the podcast. It's been such a pleasure. I really loved having you both on.
Tasneem: Thank you, Sarah, it has been a buzz.
Amina: Thank you Sarah. That was great, fun, and thank you, Tasneem.
Sarah: Ramadan Kareem and thank you for listening. The next episode of ‘My Ramadan’. We talk about navigating fasting and work with journalist Najma Sambul and lawyer Sara Mansour. I hope you'll join me for it. Hit the follow button, in your podcast app, and please share or review of the podcast if you're enjoying it. This episode was presented by me, Sarah Malik. Our audio engineer is Jeremy Wilmot. Executive producers are Sarah Malik and Caroline Gates. If you want to get in touch, email: . You can find my Ramadan in the SBS audio app or at sbs.com.au/audio.
